It takes Christopher time to figure out who the real villains are. Describe characters who seem like they might be the wrongdoers and those who really are. What would the story be like without villains?
The Blackthorn Key
Work from the bottom up--Response 1 first and Response 13 last.
In the book “The Blackthorn key” some characters that in the beginning I thought were the bad guys were Nathaniel Stubb (who did technically end up being one of the bad guys), as well as Valentine grey who I thought was another bad guy because of his not very happy demeanor and because of what it says on page 114, "He was also said to be a scold, and there was a sourness in the downturn of his lips that made me suspect the rumors were true." I really didn’t expect Oswyn Colthrust to be a bad guy because of how nice he was to Christopher. The story line would be so much different if there were no bad guys because it would be boring and there would be nothing for Christopher figure out because no one would have been killed.
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning of this book I thought one of the bad guys was for sure Nathaniel Stubb. I thought that he was one of the bed guys because in my mind he looked big and mean. On page 107 it states ,” ‘Was he in a dispute with anyone? ‘ ‘ Nathaniel Stubb’ I said ‘ The apothecary. He wants our shop. He threatened my Master.’ “ I also thought that Valentine grey was one of the bad guys because he was never happy and always grumpy. On page 114 it says , “ I barely knew Valentine, more by rumor than anything. He was the Guild secretary, and was said to be the wealthiest Apothecary in the city. Certainly, the gold chain around his neck was thick enough to see all the way from heaven. He was also said to be a bit of a scold, and there was a sourness in the downturn of his lips that made me suspect the rumours were true.” I really thought that Valentine would for sure be one of the bad guys. But what really surprised me was that Oswyn Colthrust was a bad guy. It surprised me because he was of nice and complementary. If there was no bad guys in the story I feel like it wouldn't be exciting at all. I feel like it wouldn't be exciting because there would be no one on the bad side and the good people would be all OK and safe. I feel like the bad guys in the story are very needed in the story.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the book The Blackthorn Key we come to find that there are wrongdoers. But some just seemed as if they were wrongdoers but really weren’t. For example, someone who Christopher assumed were on the wrong side but weren’t was Lord Ashcombe. Lord Ashcombe was spicuous and cold to people. Though I think that he was just focused on finding evidence on the recent murders. He was so committed that I think that he wasn’t aware of how cold he was coming off. On the other hand, there were quite a few wrongdoers. They were Oswyn, Wat, Elephant, Martin, and Nathaniel Stubb. These people were all part of the murders whether they were part of the planning, or actually did the dirty work. Overall, a majority of characters surprised me towards the end of the book because of how I judged them in the beginning of the book. Without villains the story would be boring. It would not be fascinating without a villain that causes conflict. Without conflict, the story would not be as interesting.
ReplyDeleteMaiya Swan
ReplyDeleteThroughout this book I judged many people on who I think are the antagonist and protagonist. When I started reading The Blackthorn Key, I considered Nathaniel Stubb for being a villain. Most of us come to believe Stubb for being a wrongdoer because the book lead us on to him doing all bad stuff and none good. However, The Blackthorn Key surprised me once I read that Lord Ashcombe was an enemy. If this book had no rivals in it, it would be plain boring. There would be no competition and you wouldn’t have that feeling to find out what happens next and read more.
Right away the first person I judged for sure that was a bad guy was Nathaniel Stubb. Throughout this, the book had me believing Stubbs was behind it, but he wasn't (Still he was one of the wrongdoers). Valentine was also a charterer that lead me thinking he is a wrongdoer because he seemed mischievous and grumpy. Yet, finding out that Oswyn Culthrust was the real villain didn't surprise me to much, from seeing how he acted really nice to Christopher got me thinking he was suspicious. Without villains, the book wouldn't be thrilling, plus, a protagonist should have a antagonist in any book to make it more interesting. But basically this book would be nothing because the whole plot is Christopher solving codes and clues to stop the wrongdoers.
ReplyDeleteThe first person I thought to be bad was Nathaniel Stubb because he was always competing with Blackthorn and wanted to buy their shop. I also accused Stubb even more because he was in the shop after Mr.Benedict's death. I kind of thought Valentine was a bad person because he seemed rich and all puffed up. This led me to believe he was in charge of everybody in the guild. Later I realized that Oswyn wasn't being introduced much which led me to believe he was behind something. If the story didn't have any villains I would not be interested in the book but since there were villains it hooked me in and made me read more.
ReplyDeleteAt the first of the book I thought that Nathaniel Stubb was a bad guy. Although he did end up being bad he still wasn't the killer. I then thought that Wat was the killer. He worked along with Oswyn to do the murders though I didn’t know that. I didn’t think anything of Oswyn because he was helping Christopher. When I learned that Oswyn did the murders I was very surprised. Personally, I think that if the story didn’t have villains it would be boring and have no excitement. Without villains I wouldn't have enjoyed this book.
ReplyDeleteLindy, so many times in these kinds of books the person who seems bad right away isn't the outright villain. Oswyn surprised me since he had been helpful, but then I thought of all the stories where the assumed "good guys" turn out to be the true villain. I agree that books like this need a good villain to uphold excitement!
Delete
ReplyDeleteRachel B.
When I first was introduced to Nathaniel Stubb I thought right away that he was a bad guy. The way that Christopher explained Nathaniel Stubb made him sound full of himself and they way he talked to people had me wondering what was up. Another character I thought could be a bad guy was Lord Ashcombe. What made me think he was a bad guy was his look and when what he did when he was with Christopher in Master Benedict's shop after Master Benedict had been killed. Although Nathaniel Stubb did help with the murders, the real culprit was Oswyn. Without Oswyn in the story I think it would not be very exciting. Not much would happen except Christopher would find the Archangel’s Fire and everything would be okay. I'm not sure if the book would be much of a story without the Villains.
In the book, there are some villains. At first I thought Nathaniel Stubb was the leader or head of the Cult of the Archangel. I thought this because he was always trying to steal other apothecaries ideas and he always had a very backward attitude towards Master Benedict and Christopher. It turns out though, that he was working with the Cult, but they ended up killing him after what Christopher heard in Blackthorn’s shop. I also was kind of suspicious of Valentine because of the way he acted. On page 114, it says, “He was also said to be a bit of a scold, and there was a sourness in the downturn of his lips that made me suspect the rumors were true.” I guess this was just his personality. I knew from the beginning that Wat was a bad guy. I knew he had something to do with the murders. And the book basically told us that Martin and the Elephant were bad too. What surprised me was that Oswyn was not only a bad guy, but the head of their whole gang. He was always so nice to Christopher and everyone else. I could not believe he was so power hungry, he was willing to do whatever it took to get the Fire. The book would have never been as good without villains. It probably wouldn’t have even happened if there weren’t villains. In every plot there has to be some sort of conflict for a story to progress and expand. Villains cause that conflict most of the time.
ReplyDeleteEmmalee, it makes us not want to trust any presumed "good guy" when we read books like this. Oswyn's character was well-developed, and the author was able to really surprise the reader.
DeleteThe minute Nathaniel Stubb was introduced as a character in the story, I knew he was going to be a bad guy, one of the villains. He sounded like one of those people who just put himself above everything, and with that personality flaw, I immediately planted that thought in my mind, and sure enough, I was correct in my assumptions. Nathaniel Stubb was a villain in this story. However, Stubb was not the only person who could be considered a villain. I always, from the moment Oswyn Colthurst decided to help Christopher, I had this creeping suspicion that he was a bad person, one of the main people behind all of the mess, or even just the only person responsible for the murders and conflict. In another book I recently read, titled "The Cabin", two of 7 friends are stabbed multiple times. The rest of them go in for questioning and testing, with no results as to who the murderer was. In the end, it was the person I thought was the most innocent, the one who I thought would never be able to kill two of her friends, as well as a family member of another. While reading "The Blackthorn Key" I remembered reading "The Cabin" and once I had thought about it, I couldn't pull Oswyn from that seat in my mind where all the people who you wouldn't think did it sit. This is a prime example of when you are correct when you listen to your gut. Without the villains, this book would have no conflict, and therefore, in my opinion, be very boring. I believe the villains are essential in every book, because without them, there would be no antagonist for the protagonist to defeat.
ReplyDeleteWhen I started this book I was leaning towards Nathaniel Stubb.Why I first thought Nathaniel stubb was a wrongdoer was because he did all these bad things in the book.Nathaniel Stubb was explained in the book and when they explained him he sounded like something was wrong with him. When I started to get in the book I also thought that Lord Ashcombe was an wrongdoer. Then I went back to Nathaniel Stubb.If there wasn't a villain in the book it would be very boring. I would not even want to read it.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first started the book, Nathanial Stubb came to Master Benedict's shop and said, " 'Did you hear?' There's been another murder.' He smiled." I immediately thought that he was one of the wrongdoers. After reading chapters 22-25, I changed my mind. I know thought that Wat, the Elephant, and Martin were the villains, and it turned out, they were. Oswyn said to Christopher, " 'Yes. I killed your master.' " When he said this, it took me by surprise. Oswyn was another villain in this book, even though he was very kind to Christopher. If there weren't any villains in the book, it would make so that the book had no conflict. Without conflict, the book would've been boring and wouldn't have been enjoyable to read.
ReplyDeleteLainee, I love your use of the literary term "conflict." You're absolutely right! Good novels have conflict to keep readers on edge and guessing.
DeleteJerek-
ReplyDeleteDuring the book, there are many people who seem like they are the antagonists such as Lord Ashcombe. The reason Lord Ashcombe wanted to kill Christopher was because he thought that Christopher murdered his master. The real villain of the book was Master Oswyn, who was using Christopher to find the Archangels Fire. Luckily Christopher found this out and set a trap for Oswyn and his apprentices in the lab. If the story did not have villains, then the entire book would have changed, Master Benedict would not have died and he and Christopher could use the Archangel Fire for good. Even without villains it would not have saved some of the other Master apothecaries because they died while experimenting with the Archangels Fire.
derrick
ReplyDeleteWhen i started the book I thought that Nathaniel Stubb was one of the wrongdoers. lord Ashcombe wanted to kill Christopher because he thought he killed his master. The real villains were Oswyn,Wat, and Martian. Oswyn killed Christopher master. then he hid it from him.
Derrick, what would this book be like without villains? Do you think they were important?
DeleteJoshua Bloomfield
ReplyDeleteWell the first character who seems like a villain is Master Stubb. From every angle he just screams that he’s evil, I mean he starts out bad threatening Master Blackthorn in his own shop but then he turns out to actually be paying off guards for the little team Oswen has set up. Speaking of Oswen’s little group Wat is another villain. At first Wat seems like a turd when he’s entertained by Master Benedict hitting Chris but not a murderer, but then Wat confirms that he was the one who killed Benedict in his chat with Stubb in Blackthorn. Then finally we have our main baddie Master Oswen which put a very good twist on the end of the book. I really didn’t see the whole Oswen situation coming at the end with him being the mastermind. I mean I guess looking back he was really over-friendly always agreeing with Chris and “believing” his story about Stubb and Wat in his shop but, I didn’t really pay attention to him considering that he was being nice to Chris while Wat and Stubb were off killing apothecaries. But without villains this book would be boring and it would end on the third chapter after Chris teaches you how too clean for three days straight (due to the cannon incident in the beginning). Anyhow this book had some really good twists and turns that definitely threw you off.
To me it seemed like Nathanial Stub was the main villain of the story. The way he treats both Christopher and his master put him in a more villain role in my mind. For example, on page 26 Stub hits Christopher for not getting Benedict, but Hugh tells Stub of since Christopher isn’t Stub’s apprentice. He did however play a part in the murder of Master Benedict, but Master Stub would later be killed himself. Another suspect for me was Lord Ashcombe since he reacted very coldly to everyone and seemed to be focus more on himself. Looking back though I think he just wanted to find the killer before anymore apothecaries were harmed. It caught me by quite surprise when it was discovered that Oswyn Colthrust was the main villain. He had seemed to be very nice to Christopher, and seemed happy to help him. Though he may have just be nice so Christopher could lead him to the fire. If “Blackthorn Key” had no villains there would be no problem for Christopher to solve leaving us with a very boring story. A book without villains may be very dull since the villains often provide the conflict for the protagonist to go through.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading the book The Blackthorn Key my mind was always set on Nathanial Stubb being the main antagonist. Although I wasn't entirely wrong I never expected Oswyn Colthrust to be behind this because of how nice he was to Christopher in the beginning. This book is filled with many different protagonists and antagonists, they all contribute to the story line in different ways. If there were on villains in this book then there would basically be no conflict and the book would be boring. There would be no build to the story without the villains.
ReplyDeleteIn "The Blackthorn Key" I thought that Nathaniel Stubb was one of the villains. It said in the book that he only cared for the money and profit he gained. I also thought that maybe Hugh was one of the villains. Many times in a story the person you would never suspect is a villain. I also thought that Tom's father was a villain. Because he was abusive and would beat Tom everyday. I was very surprised when I found out that Oswyn Colthrust was the main villain. If the book didn't have any villain's, there wouldn't be a story Master Benedict would have never been killed. Without any villain's it would just be a very dull story.
ReplyDeleteLauren, I love that you point out that in a story, often times the villain is someone the reader never suspects. Oswyn is a great example of this. I love the surprise element in this.
DeleteHunter Arends
ReplyDeleteWhen I started reading the book "The Blackthorn Key" I thought that the villain was going to be Nathaniel Stubb. The reason I thought this was because all Stubb wanted was money. Stubb also seemed to always be involved with Master Benedict. What I didn't expect to happen was Oswyn being the villain, with Stubb his apprentices and Wat being under his command. If the book didn't have any villains it would have turned out very differently. Master Benedict, Hugh, and everyone else wouldn't of been killed. Master Benedict would have probably told Christopher about Archangel's Fire directly, and who knows if Oswyn would even be in the story.
At the beginning of the book I thought that Nathaniel Stubb was a villain. I thought it was him because he had always wanted Master Benedicts shop. Later after Benedict and Stubb had got into and argument Benedict was murdered. Also after Benedict was killed Stubb and Wat were in the shop and Christopher heard them talking about, how if Wat didn’t kill benedict so fast they might of found out what they wanted from him. Even though Stubb was one of the villains, it had shocked me that Oswyn was the leader of the murders. It shocked me because Oswyn was always nice to Christopher and acted like he had wanted to help him, even though he was trying to get something from him. If there were no villains in this story it wouldn’t have a good plot and wouldn’t keep the readers interested.
ReplyDeleteJesse P.
ReplyDeleteIn the begining I felt like Stubbs was going to be the wrongdoer. I felt like it was going to be Stubbs because he would kill Apothecary's to find the secret recipe. Martin seemed to be the real villian of the story though. Martin is the one who really wanted to find the secret recipe. I believe that this story would be very peaceful without any villins. There would not need to be a secret recipe. More then likey Christopher would have been able to find the recipe with Master Benedict showing him.
Jesse, you're right about the book being "peaceful" without a villain. Did you find it more exciting with a villain? I feel like the book would've been much shorter and without much conflict.
DeleteTayler Felton-
ReplyDeleteThroughout the book The Blackthorn Key you come to find that there are wrongdoers. But some just seem as if they are wrongdoers but they aren’t. For example, someone who Christopher assumed was in the wrong, but they weren’t Lord Ashcombe. Lord Ashcombe was suspicious and emotionless to people. However, I think that he was focused on discovering evidence about the recent murders. I think he was so dedicated to the murders he wasn’t aware of how emotionless he was being. On the other hand, there are many wrongdoers, Oswyn, Wat, Elephant, Martin, and Nathaniel Stubb are the exact wrongdoers. All these people were part of the murders, whether they all were part of the planning, or they did the dirty work. Overall, most the characters surprised me near the end of the book because how I judged them at the start of the book. Without the villains, the story would be extremely boring. The Blackthorn Key would not be interesting at all, without a villain, which causes conflict. If the book lack conflict, the story would not be nearly as interesting.
From the beginning I thought Nathaniel Stubb was going to be somebody who was bad in the book. which, as we all know, came to be true. But what I really didn’t expect was that Oswyn was the "mastermind" of the murders. I didn't expect this because of how nice he was to Christopher and he just didn't really seem like that kind of a guy. The story line would be sooo different if there were no villains because it would be boring. The reason it would be boring is because there would be pretty much nothing for Christopher solve or do.
ReplyDeletethought the book I felt as if Nathaniel was the one guy behind the murder but also how he was going to be a bad guy but I guess I was wrong because Oswsyn was actually behind it all witch I was not expect that because of how nice he was to Christopher also he did not seem like the kind of guy to murder all the people he did. If the book had no villains or conflict the book would be boring and most people would not like the book because the story would be lost without conflict.
ReplyDeleteTrinity H.-
ReplyDeleteI thought it had been Nathaniel for the longest time. Although I don't really like to admit it, this also came along with the fact that I kinda jumped at every detail to pin the blame on him. However, I wasn't really surprised when it turned out to be Oswyn. It was more mild shock, because I thought, "there has to be just ONE Puritan as a main character for a reason, right?". If there were no villains in the story, it would get very boring very quickly. There would be nothing for the characters to do, or react to.
It takes Christopher a long time to discover who the real villains are because there are many suspicions people in the book. One of these characters is Stubb. He is mean and disrespectful to Christopher. He also seems to not like Master Benedict. Another character who seems suspicions is Martian. At the end of the book it finally revealed who the actually wrong doers were. I was surprised to find out that it was Oswyn. The book would be bland and boring without all these villains. If there were no villains there would be no story.
ReplyDeleteI think Nathaniel Stubb is the villain because he wanted Mr.Benedict shop and was conveniently in the shop after he died. I also think Wat is a assistant of the villain which make him a villain too because he is close with Stubb and acts suspicious win people talk about the murders around him. If there were no villains in the story that would mean there would be no murders and no climax and have no villain only works in romance which in my opinion is boring. No villain would make the entire murder mystery non-existent.
ReplyDeleteJoshua Youles
ReplyDeleteI think that Wat is the vilian because Nathaniel Stubb doesn't seem like a killer. Stubb Just seems like a fat,old, and grumpy.The book didn't go into detail that much about Wat but Nathaniel Stubb is a guy about in his 40s that walks around with a cane bloating about everything saying he's the best. But Wat seems mysterious and dark. This book would not be the same without the villains. The fire wouldn't have to be hidden to keep villains from getting it.
Ellie S.
ReplyDeleteI automatically thought that Nathaniel Stubb was the villain. He didn’t like Master Blackthorn at all, and he always seemed very suspicious. I was really surprised when Oswyn was revealed as the villain. I thought for sure that Stubb was the main evil guy. I never suspected Oswyn because he had always been so kind to Christopher. Without the villains in the book, it would have been a boring story.
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ReplyDeleteI automatically thought that the villain in the book was Nathaniel Stubb. I had gotten proved wrong when they revealed that Oswyn was the main villain. I would have never suspected that Oswyn was the villain because he was always so nice to Christopher and Master Benedict. Things did not plan out to be what I had thought in my head. I thought that Nathaniel Stubb was the villain because he was so mean. I feel that if the story didn't go the way it went then it would have been boring.
ReplyDeleteFrom the beginning, I thought that the villain in the story was Nathaniel Stubb. Nathaniel always seemed very suspicious because of some of his actions like sneaking into Master Benedict's shop the night after he was murdered in London. It came to great surprise when Oswyn was revealed as the true villain of the story. Oswyn was always very kind to Christopher and never acted like he was suspicious of anything. I never suspected Oswyn to be the villain. If the book did not have a villain , it wouldn't be a very good story. There would be no suspense and no climax. In my opinion, the book would be very boring without a villain.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first opened the book, I immediately pinned Nathaniel Stubb as a villain in my head. He never really seemed to have the aura of a person who wanted to help Christopher and Master Benedict. He seemed to be the type of guy who would be the opposite, the antagonist, so it really didn’t surprise me when he was revealed as one of the wrongdoers. It really surprised me when Lord Ashcombe and Oswyn Culthrust became the villains of the story. Without these surprises though, the book would have been extremely boring and very predictable.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the book The Blackthorn Key I Judged many of the characters with whom they were, where they stood in the book and much more. For example, Christopher assumed Lord Ashcombe was bad or on the other side. Lord Ashcombe was spicuous and cold to people. They were Oswyn, Wat, Elephant, Martin, and Nathaniel Stubb. These people were all part of the murders whether they were planning the murders or actually murdering. However, this book surprised me when i found out that Lord Ashcombe was an enemy. Without antagonists the book would have no climax, no plot and the book would just be boring.
ReplyDeleteI have always thought that nathaniel Stubb was the murderer due to his eerie personalty and always wanting to buy Master Benedict's shop. This did prove to be true and he also had some help from Oswyn, his apprentice Wat, Elephant, and Martin. I also thought that Lord Ashcombe was part of the murderer group since he seemed to be everywhere and always questioning people. This theory proved to be wrong. Conflict in a book is always important. Without conflict what is there to desire? Without a protagonist and an antagonist a book is simply boring. Conflict is like the heart if the book since without conflict there is no climax.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the book i though many charters were bad and most of them where. for example I thought Nathaniel Stubb was bad and he was. I also thought his apprentice Wat was bad too they both seemed really suspicious to me and he also turned out to be bad to. there also was Oswyn, Elephant, and Martin who all turnd out to be evil. without the protagonist and the antagonist there is on plot, or climax, and without a climax or plot the book would be extremely boring.
ReplyDeleteCailan M
ReplyDeleteThe Blackthorn Key is full of plot twists and surprises. At first, all fingers point towards Nathaniel Stubb as being the villain of the story. Stubb is rude and problemental, which led me to believe that he would be playing the role of the villain in the story. I was surprised when it was revealed that Oswyn was actually the villain. To me, it seemed like Oswyn was on Christopher’s side. I’m glad that there was a plot twist when it came to the villain because it was unexpected and exciting. Without a villain, Christopher would have nothing to fight against and the story would be boring.
The murderers seem to be villains, theives, and thugs. Which is actually what they are like. If this story had no villains, then it would stink. Because it would be about him only. Also, it would be boring.
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